Wednesday, July 8, 2009

The Implications of Naturalism: Notes

No Moral Absolutes:

From a discussion on a largely atheistic forum, in response to a question about relative morals.

http://sguforums.com/index.php?topic=14687

Question: If you don't believe it God, then from where do you derive your moral code? If it really is moral relativism, then on what basis do you pass moral judgment on others? How can you reprimand Jenny McCarthy for what she does, if you can't say it's unethical? If you recognize your opinion as relativism and still force it upon others, how is your outlook not self-centered?


Reply 1:  Whether we feel good about it or not, all morals are "reasoned," by which I mean that they are created by intellectual means by and among people. We can pretend that morals come from a magical omnipotent being, but that doesn't make it so. And yes, sometimes morals are invented to serve the interests of their inventors. This is as true of religiously invented morals as of secular morals. As an example, look at the first four of the Ten Commandments (no other gods, no graven images, no taking God's name in vain, keep holy the sabbath), which serve no purpose beyond reinforcing the perpetuation of religious power. Atheists aren't less moral than believers; they're just more honest about where their morals come from.
Note: this seems a most credible critique of Christian morality...I know for example that I selectively choose which of the Christian scriptures I find binding...and it easy enought to dismiss in whole or in part, even thosee I do find binding.



Reply 10:  Relativism is ignorance. Morals are easy. Let me demonstrate morality right here.
me:

Hey, I don't like when people steal my shit. I also wouldn't like it if people killed me or the people I care about.

everyone else:

Hey, we also don't want our shit stolen, and we don't want to be killed.

us:

Lets all live together and agree not to kill each other and steal each others shit! In fact, we'll set up laws to punish people who do that! Ya! Is there anything else we agree on? Um... ya! We all value truth over lies, so lets make it illegal to spread lies! (Oh no Sylvia Brown and McCarthy!) Hey, lets set up some traffic laws in the city so that people can commute easier! omg what's he doing? is he creating a civil society right in front of our eyes, without invoking a god or divine edict? Hey, new idea! Our children might not have the same ideas as to what is right/wrong as we do. We should set up a system where the laws can be changed, so new situations can be reacted to, and the shifting moral zeitgeist can be addressed!